THE MODERN OCCULTIST INTERVIEW #1

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The

Modern Occultist

Interview #1

Professional séance medium, Marc Wilke.

As part of our inaugural issue, MODERN OCCULTIST is honored to welcome three guest contributors into our Circle. Over next few weeks, readers will find exclusive and unexpurgated editions of our candid and illuminating interviews with these esteemed figures.

First in our unedited interview series is guest contributor Marc Wilke—Europe’s youngest professional séance medium—a trusted friend and renowned mystic, whose brilliant essay, “Behind the Veil” can be found in our special Techgnosis issue, and whose own website is a rich wealth of spiritual and esoteric services.

We sat with Marc to discuss his own spiritual practices and philosophies, as well as crucial advice for those aspiring mystics and academic seekers…

MODERN OCCULTIST

I was fortunate enough to attend your lecture on Carl Jungian shadow work and I admit that it was my first séance experience; It had been a seance for Jung himself, and you opened with a bit of a primer—a lecture on shadow work itself. In your opinion as a professional medium, do you see a correlation between Jung's concept of the inner shadow work and the type of spiritual processes that you go through with a group? Do you have to do your own shadow work to prepare that type of group event?

MARC WILKE

Well, personally, I think it's important for everyone to do shadow work. If you're any form of magical practitioner, I think some form of shadow work should be a part of your practice. For myself, there's a lot of preparation that goes into it—considering that a séance is often a public or semi-public event where I don’t know everyone. Then I do a bit more preparation with my spirit team and a set energetic structure—and have that be strong. Part of that is, of course, doing some shadow work and being actively aware of why you’re doing the séance. Ask yourself: Why are we even doing a seance? Why are we exploring in this way? Then, we can we just do a normal ritual or just a collective journaling exercise—both of which contain shadow aspects.

I try to escape the conventions and performative aspects that play in the preconceived notions people might have about a séance. I think that can be problematic, and that is the shadow of the seance, you know. It should be something more inclusive—like ask, “How can we do this together? How can we have this as a participatory happening, and not just one person being the medium and everyone else merely watching?”

So, do you have a different energy level with groups or the size of the group too? Or rather, do you have a preference?

I mean it's good to keep them kind of small, not too big. If we’re talking about traditionally, then perhaps twelve people or something would be a good size. But I know stances are going on with twenty or thirty people sometimes. To me, you don't have as much time to really have these individual experiences [with that high a number], and you then run the risk of saying, “Oh, no, we don't have time for that,” So that's an aspect.

And physical mediumship as a whole, like as a scene, can be very saturated in terms of narcissistic tendencies—like you’ve seen some of these some media maniacs, right? But that’s also the nature of being … hmmm … what most people think of when they hear the term magic. The physical manifestations of magical energies—can sound very much like pompous dreams, all the “godlike powers”—and that can lead very easily to that tendency. So, my goal is always to say we're not watching a seance or just trying something. We're participating in it and I'm not having an audience. I'm having a group of fellow mediums, even if they have never done that, even if they think they don't have mediumship powers, you know, I think we all have it.

I love that, especially since, and you are the right person to correct me if I'm wrong, but if you have the group and you have the energy and there's that focus that you're talking about, sounds like it starts to bleed over a little bit to perhaps “egregore territory” … Do you see a difference between those two? For example, if there’s one specific person we'd want to summon, versus an egregore where we're focusing combined energies to create?

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, like historically, you have like the “Philip Experiment” where parapsychologists knew that they were creating a fictitious character that they could perform a seance for— and it just worked, you know? So, I think that particular experiment itself speaks a bit more towards the idea of psychic group energy and collective focus. Then again, the limit and definitions towards creating an egregore, or like a thought form or a tulpa or something—then, that isn't too far away.

I think the egregore is a very strong concept inside of mediumship and seances, because when you're doing it in a traditional way—like forming a development group, and you're meeting every Tuesday or something or you're meeting in the same room at the same time—everyone has their own seats and everyone's sitting at the same place and you have the same music and you have the same opening prayer. Like everything's the same. That does create a kind of air, right? And I was kind of fortunate enough to explore ways to make it a bit more flexible and fitting for like the 21st century and like all our obligations and not being able to be there in the same group every week. So, I kind of found a way to be more flexible and to allow for a public, semi-public setting where I don't know exactly who's going to come.

Does it change the energy when it's the way you're saying, the technological change?

Absolutely, and that to me is one of the exciting things about new techno occultism or whatever you want to call it. But that's what I find interesting. I mean, that even goes into the territory of, perhaps, “Zoom” seances, or online virtual seances, right? And that’s something I think is just based on timing—the era we live in. Like, I may have been the first [medium] during the pandemic to do a seance over Skype with people far away. You know, that’s a scenario that just started to pop up over time, and people just started to get the hang of it.

It's not too far-fetched to try something like that, especially with all mythos of a “ghost in the machine thing”—just the idea of coming together and being connected through the ethers of the internet, or just having manifestations happening in your own home, opens up a lot more opportunities because first you're more comfortable in your own space. And you're reminded that it's happening because of you and with you.

One of the things that I have seen as a recurring theme when it comes to all different magic systems whether it's the ceremonial whether it's inspired by the Golden Dawn or it be Wicca— any system, really—is self-initiation, always as an option. I see that almost always because the very nature of occultism is hidden. But the idea of being able to discipline yourself and to study these things on your own—but with a guide such as yourself—you don't really see that in many other belief systems. But for what we do, self-initiation, it seems to be widely accepted. And I'm wondering if, post-COVID, now that people are adjusting to that and discovering esoteric practices on their own—that might broaden the appeal that this is a spirituality that can be focused on at home. Do you see that trend?

Absolutely. I think it has always been about self-empowerment and seeking autonomy. You know, if you look into it historically, [magic] always been this archetype of the outcast—the archetype of the hermit, just being on your own and exploring these things concepts for yourself. And especially in this day and age, it's so important to seek this kind of individualism—that is, beyond being an individual that's performative and not just showing up online and being, “Oh, look what I'm doing—I'm so individualistic!” But, rather, seeking that in a spiritual way—finding your own path and freeing yourself from this other [aspect] of our society that is pure cynicism and just overall hopelessness and meaninglessness. In the face of scientism being [seen as] the new religion, even if you don't understand it, surely science will have an answer sometime, you know? Then you have a dangerous belief that either way, all the dogma is dangerous in that sense. But finding your own path is incredibly liberating.

One of the things I've heard from a number of professors in higher education mirrors what you’ve said as a practitioner, that they're seeing a rise in youthful interest in this type of mysticism and self-knowledge, which was not necessarily pushed at home in a traditional house. But now, young adults are causing a popularity in historical magic.

Are you starting to see more people ask these questions of you? Are you maybe seeing a rise in an interest of this because of political disruption or things like that?

[Laughs] Witchcraft is fucking political! I think it's all very much political, which is not to say that it should be instrumentalized, you know, as something that's political. I have a bit of a pet peeve when it comes to people saying, “I want to hex the government,” or they want to put a curse politicians—that doesn’t really make sense to me. I would prefer something like invoking balance, and just not being up on your high horse and saying, “Oh, I know what's best for the society and I'm going to put a spell on them so they see it my way.” My seances are more peaceful.

[And] as a side-note—in terms of seeing more young spiritual seekers, of course you always have to take this with a grain of salt. I—like everyone else—we're all living in our bubbles, you know? So, I think I do see more interest in that way, especially from younger people, or, what would be fairer to say is I see a general bigger interest in these topics … It’s kind of problematic in that we don't really acknowledge the depth of thinking and the interest that younger people can have in these topics. Maybe it’s just my theory, maybe it's not—but maybe we just live in a world that is more accommodating for those interests in terms of self-study. But then again, it’s also a time of self-liberation, of seeking your own truths and creating “the good life” for yourself, just being your own boss. I think it just makes sense that we also see this in the spiritual domain in that way, too.

In your wonderful essay for Modern Occultist, you made it a point to state that, prior to a séance, you won’t always perform a banishing ritual—such as the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram [LBRP] which, incidentally, is one of the first things that is emphasized for inclusion for a self-educated initiate.

Why do you choose not to perform such a ritual—and is that something you would recommend to others?

I think what it comes down to is you need to be comfortable, and one aspect of banishing rituals, in general, is that, when they're done in a certain way, can come from a place of fear—or, rather, maybe from a place of uncertainty. And of course, the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram is in itself an initiation—the idea of placing yourself in the center of your own cosmos and of becoming the Axis Mundi—of your own world. But I don't think it's a very good protection ritual. I also don't think it makes a lot of sense for a séance, since you're banishing things out when you’re aiming an experience. and you want to meet certain entities. For me, a preparation that I always do—and that I think is way closer to the intention of using the LBRP—is the Kabbalistic Cross. It’s a bit like placing yourself in the center of your universe, but in a soft way.

Do you have any recommendations to first-timers who have never attended one of your seance readings? And how could they open their mind to the experience before walking in?

Well, I think that the most dangerous aspect of seances is when a person is afraid due to things they’ve seen in Hollywood movies or on television. So, I’m usually glad when someone says to me, "Oh, I think I really want to come to your seance" because, for example, they're interested in Carl Jung or they're interested in Hildegard von Bingen, and in having a more direct experience. I think that is a good reason to come to a séance … And fear is the biggest risk. That's why I play cheesy music. [laughs]

I remember at your séance, you began by playing the Bee Gees! I had a big smile on my face in the dark because I thought to myself, “This guy's keeping everyone calm first.” I could even hear people swaying to the music in the dark.

Yes, that's a very important aspect. I mean, what you need to know before a séance is you need to be comfortable with darkness. And I mean that in a few ways—not just literally. In some instances, we’re all “ the in the dark”, and for other bits, also energetically. In general, you need to be fine with certain aspects of darkness. And that’s where shadow work and facing some of your own darkness, comes in.

In the opinion of this magazine, any true professional of divination work like yourself is following their calling or, rather, their vocation. Would you agree with that assessment and opinion like it was a vocation to you? If so, do you have any advice for someone who feels that they might have those spiritual abilities and may be frightened or confused by them?

I don't know if I would put it up onto the pedestal of being a vocation, or even a gift for that matter, because I think divination, so… [much more of] a skill that definitely needs to be developed and honed. We may see if you're able to make something out of some kind of innate ability. So I think with most of these techniques in magic, they’re very similar to how you would learn the piano. Some people may have an innate ability, but you can still learn it if you don’t. But if you don't practice, well, you don't really get far either way. Or if you never sit down at the piano, you will never know at all, right?

So, the question really is, “Can you stay at it long enough to notice that you may be good at it and to notice how much practice can develop you?”

How would you describe, in your opinion, occult philosophy itself?

I think calling it a “philosophy” is very helpful and very liberating because we don't have the same pressure of when it’s addressed as occult science. I think magic, or occultism, is itself a mix of art and science, you know. And this opens up the idea of we are just philosophizing, you know? We have models and we have ideas and theories, but we are never really under the false impression that we know it all. The map isn't the territory. And there’s also the kind of convincing that you can do with occult philosophy—the kind of convincing that makes more sense, when you show people theories and mechanisms that they then discover within themselves.

So, I think occult philosophy is a very helpful term in that way, and something to explore. It allows for uncertainties and interpretation in our own understanding, which is beautiful.

What’s one basic exercise that anyone fascinated in these topics or, rather, is curious about their own abilities, can do on a daily basis?

People often say to me, “Marc, you're probably doing rituals 24-7, and doing all this spellcraft and doing commission spells for other people or preparing a seance and talking with your spirit guides and everything” and all of that. And I tell them honestly, “No, not all the time. You know, I still have a life.” I mean, magic can be in your life, but it should be an aspect of your life. And remember, magic is also there to make a good life, so balance is super important. If you've been having a long day of spells and magic and rituals and it's just too much [to handle], the one daily exercise on that day should be about grounding. And even if that’s just taking a bath, or even something as mundane as exercise or singing—great! Great for getting back into the body. So, I recommend that everyone adds a very non-magical thing to their practical work—just cooking and enjoying a good meal, you know? Cooking isn’t necessarily magic, but there is [a form of] alchemy in there. Something like that.

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