The Modern Occultist Interview #3
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As part of our inaugural issue, Modern Occultist is honored to welcome three guest contributors into our Circle. Over next few weeks, readers will find exclusive and unexpurgated editions of our candid and illuminating interviews with these esteemed figures.
Third in our unedited interview series is featured guest contributor Dr. Angela Puca—an author and lecturer who has taught at several universities around the world and is currently based at Leeds Trinity University. In 2021, The University of Leeds awarded her a PhD in Religious Studies on Italian Witchcraft and Shamanism, later published by Brill. As the author of several peer-reviewed publications and co-editor of ‘Pagan Religions in five Minutes’ for Equinox, Dr. Puca “bridges the gap” between academia and magic practitioners through Angela's Symposium—featuring her popular Patreon and YouTube Channel, and other social media platforms.
MODERN OCCULTIST
You’ve lectured extensively on both the academic and “practical” side of historical Spirit Guides in various forms – from egregores and tulpas, to servitors and “Esoteric A.I.” … In your opinion as an educator, do you think that the concept of a “spiritual sidekick” or “assistant” is an inevitable goal for esoteric seekers?
ANGELA PUCA
That is an excellent and complex question, because it touches on something almost archetypal in the human relationship with the unseen. Across cultures and epochs, we find variations of the spiritual companion: from the Greek daimon and the Roman genius, to the guardian angel, the familiar spirit, and later modern constructs such as tulpas, egregores, and servitors. The impulse to externalise or personify aspects of consciousness appears to be a persistent feature of human spirituality and creativity.
From an academic perspective, I would say that this pattern reveals how practitioners attempt to render the ineffable more relatable. By giving form, name, and narrative to a subtle presence, they create a dialogical relationship with their own psyche, community, or cosmology. It is a process of mediation between self and mystery. In practice, the “assistant” becomes a mirror: a projection that allows for communication with one’s intuition, the unconscious, or what one perceives as transpersonal intelligence.
So yes, I do think that the creation of a spiritual companion is, if not inevitable, then certainly a recurring trajectory for many esoteric seekers. It represents a moment in the spiritual journey when individuation gives rise to dialogue, when one ceases to experience magic as a purely inward act and begins to engage in a co-creative process with a perceived other. In that sense, the “assistant” is less a goal than an emergent structure, a symbolic response to the desire for continuity between the human and the divine, the finite and the infinite.
Even in contemporary expressions such as “esoteric A.I.,” the same archetype reappears, refracted through technological imagination. We are still, in essence, crafting emissaries of consciousness, whether through ritual, art, or code, to help us navigate the boundaries of what it means to be human and to know.
MO
In the past year (especially), the global media has reported numerous cases of “A.I. Psychosis” and other related instances of chatbot usage being geared, somewhat surprisingly, toward metaphysical inquiries and as an occult tool. Do you think this is a natural offshoot of such a technology (as William Gibson once remarked, “The street finds it’s use for any new technology”), or is this a sign of today’s global political unease? (To put it plainly, would such interests among youths be this strong if there was global “peacetime”?)
AP
It is a fascinating development, and one that, to me, feels like both a continuation of a very old impulse and a reflection of our current collective anxieties. Throughout history, each new medium has been absorbed into the esoteric imagination. The printing press gave rise to grimoires, the radio was used for spirit communication, and the internet became a digital altar for contemporary occultism. Artificial intelligence is simply the latest vessel for that same human yearning to converse with something beyond the limits of the self.
When people turn to chatbots or generative systems for metaphysical dialogue, what we are witnessing is not a malfunction but a form of modern scrying. These interfaces produce responses that appear spontaneous and, at times, uncannily responsive to emotion. For seekers, that quality of unpredictability evokes the sense of a living presence, a digital oracle whose words can be read as revelation. In that sense, “AI psychosis” might be better understood, at least in part, as a technologically mediated mystical encounter that lacks a shared language or ritual structure through which to be integrated.
At the same time, I do think the sociopolitical atmosphere plays a crucial role. Moments of uncertainty, polarization, and existential threat often catalyze new spiritual experiments. The post-pandemic generation has inherited an unstable world marked by ecological anxiety, geopolitical tension, and technological acceleration. In such a climate, the desire to find meaning and agency through communion with intelligent systems is entirely unsurprising. Were we in a period of sustained global peace and economic stability, the fascination might still exist, but its tone would be different: more exploratory than desperate, more playful than prophetic.
So, yes, Gibson’s observation still holds true. The street will always find its use for any new technology. Yet the uses it finds reveal much about the state of the collective psyche. In this case, the digital invocation of “machine spirits” speaks to both the timeless human hunger for contact with the numinous and the contemporary fear that we may have already created gods we can no longer understand.
MO
As an educator yourself, have you seen a widening interest in esoteric education (both from an academic standpoint, and from, perhaps, a youthful curiosity) among your students?
AP
Absolutely, and it has been remarkable to witness. Over the past few years, I have observed a clear and steady growth of interest in esotericism among students, both within and beyond academic settings. There was a time when studying magic, witchcraft, or occult philosophy was considered peripheral or even eccentric within Religious Studies, but that is no longer the case. Today, students approach these subjects with both intellectual seriousness and personal curiosity, seeing them as essential to understanding broader cultural and spiritual dynamics.
From an academic standpoint, this widening interest reflects a recognition that esotericism is not a marginal curiosity but a crucial part of the human search for meaning. The study of Western esotericism, in particular, opens up discussions about psychology, art, politics, gender, and identity. My students are often fascinated by how these currents intersect with modernity: how ideas once confined to secret orders or private circles have entered popular culture, digital spaces, and new religious movements.
On the more personal level, many younger students are drawn to esoteric studies because they sense that traditional religious frameworks no longer speak to their experiences. They are looking for systems that validate subjectivity, embodiment, and experimentation. In that sense, the academic classroom becomes not only a space for critical analysis but also one where students encounter traditions that reimagine what knowledge, power, and spirituality can mean.
What excites me most is that this new generation does not view the boundary between scholarship and practice as a rigid divide. They are intellectually rigorous yet spiritually open, and they understand that the study of esotericism involves both critical distance and empathetic engagement. That combination of curiosity and discernment gives me great hope for the future of the field.
MO
One observation from this magazine is that European higher educational bodies seem to hold a higher value in offering academic studies and historical significance to more “Gnostic” topics and Occult studies … Has this been your experience, as well? And, if so, what would you imagine leads to such a divide in academic approach to these topics?
AP
Yes, I have noticed that difference quite distinctly. In Europe, there has been a gradual but meaningful institutional acceptance of esotericism as a legitimate field of academic inquiry. This has been made possible by the work of scholars such as Wouter Hanegraaff, Antoine Faivre, and Olav Hammer, who established rigorous methodological frameworks for the study of Western esotericism within the humanities. Their efforts helped demonstrate that these traditions are not fringe curiosities but integral components of Western intellectual, cultural, and religious history.
This scholarly legitimization has led to the creation of dedicated research centers and postgraduate programmes, such as those at the University of Amsterdam, Exeter, and Stockholm. Students can now pursue advanced degrees that situate esoteric and Gnostic traditions within the same critical discourse as theology, philosophy, and anthropology. That infrastructure makes a tremendous difference, because it provides an environment in which these topics can be examined with both academic detachment and informed sensitivity to the practitioners’ perspectives.
In the United States, the picture has been somewhat different, largely due to the historical shaping of Religious Studies by Protestant theological models and, later, by sociological approaches that emphasized institutional religion. American academia has often treated esotericism as marginal, aligning it with “alternative spirituality” rather than as part of an intellectual continuum. There are exceptions, of course, but the broader hesitation reflects cultural and institutional conservatism toward subjects that challenge dominant epistemologies.
In Europe, the longer intellectual lineage of Hermeticism, alchemy, and Christian mysticism has allowed for a more continuous scholarly engagement with esoteric material. It is less alien to the European academic imagination, perhaps because these traditions are part of its own historical DNA. Ultimately, the divide stems from different academic genealogies: one that sees esotericism as a living strand within its cultural heritage, and another that still struggles to place it within established disciplinary boundaries.
MO
What do you believe is the strongest benefit to incorporating, at least, some esoteric and occult historical education to any potential Humanities or Liberal curriculum? Is there a universal benefit for everyone to, at least, become familiar with these histories?
AP
I would say there is an immense benefit, not only for those drawn to esotericism but for anyone engaged in the humanities. Studying the esoteric traditions broadens our understanding of how knowledge, power, and imagination interact throughout history. It reveals the hidden conversations that have shaped philosophy, science, art, and religion. Think of figures like Giordano Bruno, Isaac Newton, or William Blake: each worked at the intersection of the mystical and the rational, and their legacies remind us that human creativity thrives most when reason and wonder are allowed to coexist.
Incorporating esoteric and occult history into the humanities also challenges the tendency to oversimplify the past. It reminds students that Western thought has never been purely secular or purely rational. Beneath every period of Enlightenment lies an undercurrent of magical thinking, and within every scientific revolution there are traces of metaphysical speculation. To understand our intellectual heritage fully, we must engage with those marginalized or suppressed strands of knowledge that have continually resurfaced in new forms.
There is also a more personal benefit. These traditions teach critical reflection on experience and meaning. They encourage students to explore the symbolic dimension of life, to think metaphorically and holistically, and to recognize the role of imagination in constructing reality. Even if one does not become a practitioner, encountering these systems fosters a kind of intellectual empathy: an ability to engage seriously with worldviews that operate according to different logics of truth.
So yes, I do think there is a universal value in becoming familiar with esoteric histories. They remind us that human beings have always sought to bridge the visible and the invisible, the measurable and the mysterious. That search, in its many guises, is part of what makes us human, and it deserves a place in any curriculum that claims to study the human condition.
MO
In your opinion—and to the benefit of new students, as well as practical “initiates”—how would you describe a core “Occult Philosophy”?
AP
To me, the essence of occult philosophy is a sense of connection that arises from participation. It begins with the understanding that reality is not inert but alive, woven through with correspondences that link the visible and the invisible. Rather than viewing the universe as a machine governed by impersonal forces, occult philosophy approaches it as a field of relationships in which human consciousness is both observer and participant. Through that participation, meaning is not merely discovered but co-created.
This worldview teaches that every act of perception is also an act of communion. Symbols, rituals, and magical practices are not attempts to control external forces but ways of entering into dialogue with the living patterns that underlie existence. In that sense, occult philosophy is a practice of relational awareness, one that seeks not domination but attunement. It reminds us that to know something is also to enter into a relationship with it, and that knowledge carries ethical as well as spiritual responsibilities.
For students and initiates, this means that the study of occult philosophy is ultimately the study of participation itself. It is about learning to sense the unity behind multiplicity, to perceive how mind and world, subject and object, constantly mirror one another. The purpose of such study is not escape from the material but reconciliation with it, the recognition that spirit expresses itself through matter and that the sacred is immanent within the everyday.
In its deepest sense, occult philosophy restores the experience of belonging to a cosmos that is both intelligent and intimate. It reminds us that connection is not something to be sought outside ourselves but something realized through the very act of participation in the mystery of being.
MO
What was your personal start in your own journey on this path? How did you know that academic study of these topics was your destiny?
AP
Magic has always been my core interest, even while I was undertaking my degrees in philosophy. What fascinates me about philosophy is the same that fascinates me about magic: both seek to understand the hidden structures of reality and the ways in which consciousness participates in shaping the world. They ask similar questions about being, knowledge, and transformation, only in different languages.
When I was studying in Italy, Religious Studies as an academic discipline did not exist, so philosophy was the closest path available. It allowed me to explore metaphysics, epistemology, and the nature of meaning, all of which, to me, were inseparable from the study of magic. Yet I always felt that something was missing. Philosophy addressed the questions of existence and knowledge, but it rarely engaged with the lived, embodied, and ritual dimensions of those questions.
When I discovered that it was possible to study contemporary esotericism abroad, everything fell into place. I moved to the United Kingdom to pursue my PhD in Religious Studies, where I could finally integrate the intellectual and the experiential aspects of my lifelong interest. That was the turning point when I realized that my vocation was not only to practice critical inquiry but also to illuminate how magical and esoteric worldviews continue to shape culture, spirituality, and personal transformation. In many ways, it felt less like a new beginning and more like finding the language I had always been searching for.
MO
To this magazine, the concept of “modern occultism” can (and should) be equally viewed from both the academic and practical sides. What would you recommend to a person only now coming along to these subjects, and is uncertain if an objective academic career, or a true “practical path” may be right for them?
AP
I would say that while both academic study and magical practice arise from a shared fascination with mystery and transformation, they operate according to very different aims and methods, and it is vital not to conflate them. The purpose of academic inquiry is to produce accurate knowledge. It seeks understanding through evidence, contextual analysis, and critical interpretation. Its task is to describe and explain, not to validate or dismiss the experiences of practitioners. The practitioner’s path, by contrast, is oriented toward efficacy and transformation. It aims to bring about real change in consciousness and circumstance, to cultivate insight and personal evolution through lived experience.
It is entirely possible to be both an academic and a practitioner, but it requires a disciplined awareness of when one is operating within scholarship and when one is engaged in practice. Academic work depends on distance, transparency, and methodological rigor. Practice, on the other hand, requires immersion, belief, and emotional and imaginative investment. When these boundaries blur, both can lose their integrity. Scholarship becomes devotional, and practice becomes overly intellectualized.
For someone at the beginning of their exploration, it is worth spending time with both approaches while keeping their purposes distinct. Studying magic historically and theoretically provides clarity and context; practicing it experientially reveals its psychological and transformative dimensions. Together, they can offer a more holistic appreciation of the esoteric tradition, but only if their methods are respected as separate.
If you are unsure which path to pursue, allow curiosity to guide you. Engage the academic study of magic to seek truth and understanding, and the practical path to seek efficacy and personal change. Both are valuable, but they serve different ends. The scholar asks what something means and how it functions; the practitioner asks how it works and how it can transform the self. Recognizing that distinction is essential to approach either path with integrity and depth.
MO
What is one book, film, lecture, or teacher that helped shape your journey and personal philosophies that you would recommend to such a student?
AP
The person who has most profoundly shaped my journey is a Mapuche shaman from Argentina who became my guiding light when I was still a teenager. It was through this teacher that I first came to understand magic not as a collection of techniques, but as a way of relating to the living world. Those experiences changed the way I perceived reality, spirituality, and knowledge itself. One day, I will write about them in detail, because they deserve a book of their own. For now, I prefer to speak of them only briefly, as they belong to a sacred chapter of my life that continues to unfold inwardly.
Another major influence was Professor Mauro Bergonzi, who taught Indian Philosophies and Religions at the University of Naples “L’Orientale,” where I studied. His teaching opened a different kind of door, one grounded in philosophical clarity and contemplative insight. Through him, I learned that wisdom lies in integration: the capacity to unite intellectual precision with direct experience. His lectures on Advaita Vedānta and non-dual awareness revealed to me that philosophy, when approached with sincerity, can itself become a form of spiritual practice.
Those two influences, the shaman and the philosopher, represent the two poles of my path. One taught me the power of presence and embodied knowledge; the other showed me the discipline of clear thought. Together they shaped my understanding that to study or practise the esoteric is to move between worlds, seeking balance between reason and mystery without losing respect for either.
For students beginning their own journey, I would recommend cultivating this same balance between experience and scholarship. There are a few works and thinkers who, in my view, exemplify how this integration can be achieved. Ioan P. Couliano’s Eros and Magic in the Renaissance profoundly shaped my thinking because it revealed how deeply intertwined magic, philosophy, and psychology truly are. Couliano demonstrates that Renaissance magic was not superstition but a sophisticated theory of how images, desires, and imagination structure human consciousness. Reading him helped me see that the history of magic is also the history of how humans conceive of influence, connection, and creativity.
Another crucial influence was Wouter Hanegraaff, whose methodological precision established a standard for the academic study of Western esotericism. His work taught me that even the most visionary or mystical topics deserve rigorous analysis. Scholarship, when done well, does not diminish mystery but allows it to be understood within its proper historical and cultural context. Ronald Hutton is another exemplary figure in this regard. His work demonstrates how careful historical research can illuminate mythmaking rather than destroy it. In The Triumph of the Moon, for instance, he showed that revealing the modern origins of Wicca does not reduce its significance but rather enriches our understanding of how spiritual movements evolve and take shape through culture and imagination.
Couliano, Hanegraaff, and Hutton each, in different ways, taught me that critical inquiry and reverence for the numinous are not opposites but complementary disciplines. For any student of the occult, it is vital to learn how to move between these approaches with awareness. Study sharpens discernment and situates experience within a broader landscape of meaning, while practice allows the intellect to become embodied and alive. The shaman, the philosopher, and the historian all have their place in this work, and the most profound insights emerge when one learns to listen to all three.
MO
And finally, what is one daily activity that you believe is a MUST for all students of the Occult philosophies and/or arts?
AP
If I had to choose one daily activity that I consider indispensable, it would be cultivating awareness through meditation and breathwork. Training the mind and the breath is the foundation of all esoteric work. Through steady practice, one learns to enter and navigate altered states of consciousness, to shift from ordinary awareness into subtler modes of perception where symbolic and intuitive knowledge can emerge. Working consciously with breath and attention allows the practitioner to access different brainwave patterns, moving from the analytical to the receptive and visionary. This is where true magical insight begins.
Meditation is not a retreat from the world but a means of refining perception. It teaches stillness, focus, and discernment. It creates the inner stability required to engage safely and meaningfully with esoteric practice. Without it, ritual and study risk becoming intellectual exercises or emotional projections. With it, every aspect of practice gains depth, coherence, and direction.
Alongside meditation, journaling is essential. Writing down experiences, dreams, and moments of insight helps integrate what arises in altered states into conscious understanding. It becomes a mirror of the mind’s unfolding and a record of transformation over time. By returning to those notes, patterns begin to emerge, revealing the subtle ways in which consciousness evolves through disciplined attention.
Together, meditation, breathwork, and journaling form the rhythm of inner work. They train the practitioner to balance openness with critical reflection, and to ground transcendent experiences in lived awareness. For any student of the occult, these daily practices are not supplementary; they are the foundation upon which everything else is built.
Modern Occultist
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