The
Modern Occultist
Interview #14
Tom Jackson
Every Day is a GOOD Day: Robert Shea on Illuminatus! Writing and Anarchism (ed.)
Hilaritas Press, 2025
MODERN OCCULTIST
John Higgs observed that one of the great paradoxes of Illuminatus! is that its cult following transferred itself almost entirely to Robert AntonWilson, leaving Roberts Shea’s enormous contributions and later solo work at genuine risk of being forgotten. You spent a decade assembling this collection to correct that imbalance. What do you think produced that asymmetry in the first place—and what does Shea’s work offer that Wilson’s, for all its brilliance, doesn’t? And also, is that something that you can directly address as the editor and chief webmaster for the RAWIllumination.net official blog?
TOM JACKSON
I suspect that part of it is that after Illuminatus! was published in 1975, Robert Anton Wilson went on to fairly quickly publish a series of other brilliant books that continued some of the same themes as Illuminatus!, e.g. Cosmic Trigger in 1977, the Schrödinger's Cat Trilogy (1979-1981), The Illuminati Papers (1980) and so on, with more new books coming out in the 1980s. Robert Shea's first novel, Time of the Dragons (the first of the two Shike novels), came out in June 1981. six years after Illuminatus!, and the connections to Illuminatus! are more subtle than in Wilson's work.
Shea's solo novels are all historical novels, many of them
set in the Middle Ages, and will appeal to anyone who likes a good story and
wants a vivid sense of what life might have been like in those days. When I
began my RAWIllumination.net blog back in 2010, it was almost exclusively
devoted to Robert Anton Wilson and to RAW's many interests. As I read more of
Shea's novels, though, I began to realize he was a very interesting writer in
his own right, and I gradually shifted to more posts about Shea. I know have
both "Robert Anton Wilson Resources" and "Robert Shea
Resources" areas on my home page.
MO
Shea’s spiritual path was a fascinatingly personal amalgam—leaving Catholicism at thirty, absorbing Zen through Alan Watts and Ray Bradbury’s Zen and the Art of Writing, and weaving Cathar mysticism, Sufi philosophy, and samurai warrior traditions through his historical novels. On the other hand, RAW’s occultism was explicit, documented, and publicly performed, while Shea’s seems quieter, more interior, and practiced rather than proclaimed. In your decade of research, what did you come to understand about how Shea’s spiritual life actually functioned—and how it shaped the books?
TJ
By his own account, and according to his son, Mike Shea,
Robert Shea meditated for about 20 minutes a day. As you note, he was
really into Zen Buddhism. He came across an article by Ray Bradbury in Writer
magazine, "Zen and the Art of Writing," and it made a deep impression
on him. In a 1985 newspaper article that I recently reprinted on my blog,
Shea said, "In his article, Bradbury implied that there was something
about Zen that, if studied, could help people become more creative writers. So,
like a lot of people, I got involved in mysticism thinking it would give me
some practical benefit. But once you get into it, you lose that motivation.
Writing becomes a way of getting closer to mysticism."
MO
The title No Governor—Shea’s anarchist zine—comes from the Zhuangzi line that Wilson also loved: “There is no governor anywhere.” It’s a phrase that sits at the intersection of Taoist philosophy, political anarchism, and something approaching genuine magical thinking—the idea that the universe has no central authority and therefore neither should human society. How do you understand the relationship between Shea’s Zen practice and his anarchism? Were they the same conviction in different registers, or genuinely separate commitments that happened to coexist?
TJ
I'm not sure I see a connection, except in the sense that
Zen and Shea's anarchism both reflect his commitment to individualism. The
practice of zazen meditation and the study of Zen seems like a form of inner
development, while Shea's anarchist activity, participation on antiwar marches,
and so on, reflect his activism out in the world.
MO
To many readers, the Illuminatus! Trilogy would never
have been published without Shea’s pragmatism—it was his relationship with
editor Bob Abel that secured the contract, and his “easygoing” temperament that
kept the collaboration alive while Wilson fought the publishers. As someone who
runs RAWIllumination.net and has spent years immersed in both men’s worlds, how
do you personally square your obvious love of Wilson with what feels, frankly,
like a historical injustice to his co-author?
TJ
Well, part of the reason I got Hilaritas Press to publish my anthology of Robert Shea's shorter pieces, Every Day Is a GOOD Day, in 2025 was that I wanted to draw attention to Shea and argue that perhaps he has been overshadowed a bit too much by his Illuminatus! co-author.
Having said that, when you compare the two solo careers, in some ways Shea was more successful than Wilson. Shea's first fiction work, Shike, originally published as separate novels and then in a one-volume set, sold very well and made Shea quite a bit of money. His followup novels did not do as well, which bothered Shea, but his literary agent, Al Zuckerman, was very much into helping his writers be commercially successful, and if Shea had lived longer (he died of cancer at age 61 in 1994, while still very active as a writer), perhaps Zuckerman could have helped him produce another big hit. (Zuckerman's "how-to" book, Writing the Blockbuster Novel, was dedicated to five of the writers Zuckerman represented, including Shea, and says that all five wrote "blockbuster" novels that did not get the recognition they deserved.
Wilson's major solo work of fiction after Illuminatus! was
his Schrödinger's Cat Trilogy. I love those books and they
have a strong following among RAW fans, but they did not sell particularly
well. When I interviewed David Hartwell, a famous science fiction book editor
who put out several of Wilson's books, Hartwell told me the Cat novels
had decent sales, but added that they did not do well enough to interest
Hartwell in putting out sequels to the books. I also don't have the impression
that Wilson's "Historical Illuminatus" books did particularly
well, either. Wilson wrote three, then stopped. He had originally planned to
write five novels.
MO
Wilson’s relationship to magic and the occult was always epistemically playful—maybe it’s real, maybe it’s a useful map, maybe the map is the territory; Shea’s novels and essays, however, suggest a man who took the mystical traditions he wrote about with genuine seriousness—the Cathars, the Sufis, the Zinja warrior monks—not as exotic scenery but as living systems of meaning. Did your research for Every Day is a Good Day reveal anything about Shea’s private occult or magical beliefs that surprised you—something the novels hint at but the public record doesn’t confirm?
TJ
Shea was open minded about occult lore, but one of the things I noticed when I was assembling the book was that he took time to make it clear that he did not regard himself as an occult practitioner. He was a Discordian, he was very much a student of Zen Buddhism, but in an interview for Outworlds magazine, he said: "I've pretty much ceased to believe in the supernatural and so am not into Neo-Paganism or the occult. I am very interested in Zen Buddhism. That isn't very fashionable any more, but I think most of the Americans who took up Zen in the 50s and 60s barely scratched the surface. Zen, as I understand it, doesn't involve any belief in the supernatural. It's more like a kind of psychotherapy."
A moment later, he adds, "Mysticism as practiced in Zen
seems to me to offer the benefits of a religion without the drawbacks. So, I
have been meditating every day for the past two years—the zazen method of
meditation—counting exhalations up to ten and then starting over again. This
has been a profound experience for me and one that has greatly enriched my
life."
MO
In your personal opinion—and to the benefit of new students and initiates—how would you describe “Occult Philosophy”?
TJ
It's probably a good idea for me
not to feign more knowledge about the occult than I actually have. I have for
the past few years been a student, mostly because of my interest in Robert
Anton Wiilson, but I don't know enough still to lecture other people on the
subject!
MO
What was your personal start on your own journey on this path (or chosen profession)?
TJ
I first read Illuminatus! in the 1970s, when I was a college student in Oklahoma. I came to regard myself as a libertarian, politically, and my friends who were fans of the books also were libertarians. I thought of Illuminatus! as a "libertarian" novel. The occult aspects of the book did not particularly impress themselves upon me. It was only after I had done my blog for awhile that it really registered with me that many, if not most, RAW fans were not in fact libertarians and that in fact for perhaps the majority, RAW's interest in magick was the most interesting thing about him.
RAW had a lot of interests and I
think many of his fans are like me -- they focus on what particularly interests
them. So I am particularly interested, for example, in libertarianism, in
classical music and in literary theory, all topics that RAW wrote a lot about.
I have only recently been reading more about the occult. Lately, I have been
reading The Moon and Serpent Bumper Book of Magic by Alan
Moore and Steve Moore, and I have found it particularly useful to learn about
the occult and the role it plays in Wilson's work. For example, the book
has an article on the Kabbalah, which Wilson used in the structure of
Illuminatus!
MO
To this magazine, the concept of “modern occultism” can (and should) be equally viewed from both the academic and practical sides. What would you recommend to a person only now coming along to these subjects, and is uncertain if an objective academic career, or a true “practical path” may be right for them?
TJ
As I mentioned, I don't
want to feign an expertise that I don't have. However, as an interesting tip
for your readers, Hilaritas Press, the publishing imprint of the Robert Anton
Wilson Trust, is about to come out with a new anthology of Wilson's writings on
magick. I am told by one of the editors, Oz Fritz, whose opinion I trust, that
the book is going to be very strong. By the time this interview is
published, the book should be out or should be about to come out soon.
(Hilaritas does not announce publication dates. When a book is ready to be
published, it is published.)
MO
What is one book, film, lecture, or teacher that helped shape your journey and personal philosophies that you would recommend to a new student or occult practitioner (or historian / academic)?
TJ
I have in the
last few years become very interested in the Epicurean philosophy, which
I think is a very powerful philosophy for learning how to be happy and how to
approach life in a sane manner. (It is not the "eat, drink and be
merry" philosophy that many people assume it is). The best modern book
about Epicureanism is Living for Pleasure by Emily A. Austin,
a philosophy professor at Wake Forest University. I have a theory that Robert
Shea had Epicurean beliefs, although this notion is damaged by the fact that
I've never run across a reference to Epicurus or Epicureanism in his works. I
suspect that more people would be interested in Epicureanism if they knew what
it actually was.
MO
And finally, what is one daily activity that you believe is a MUST for all seekers of the occult philosophies and/or arts?
TJ
I have had a habit all my life of reading in books every
day. I have read nearly all of Robert Anton Wilson's books and I can assure
everyone that all of his books, not just the best-known ones, are well worth
reading. There are many writers who have not had the consistency of quality of
Wilson's work.
(Every day, Modern Occultist News will present "This Day in Occult History" and your "Daily Occult Review" and will dive into the birthdays, rituals, breakthroughs, and crucial moments that shaped today’s many esoteric traditions. From the Hermetic revival to Witchcraft, from Crowley to cyberspace, we’ll bring the best stories and latest trends to today’s own modern occultists everywhere.)
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